Poll: Should It Be Lights Out for July 4th Fireworks Displays Over Water?

Encinitas lawyer Marco Gonzalez has been driving force behind environmental challenges.

Fourth of July fireworks displays at La Jolla Cove and Lake Murray have been traditions for years.  But a new tradition has sprung up: environmentalist challenges to the annual shows.  Encinitas lawyer Marco Gonzalez has given notice that he may continue pressing his case to halt these shows, even with the legal matter on hold. (And the Lake Murray fireworks have been canceled for 2012, says organizer John Pilch.) Should CEQA, the state environmental protection law, apply to once-a-year shows like these?  Or should exceptions be made for displays beloved by many?

marco gonzalez June 26, 2012 at 06:14 PM
Clariece -- not true. About ten years ago Sea World had a Master Plan approved that required a decrease in the number of night fireworks could be shot off. There was almost no discussion of environmental impacts in the documents supporting that City and Coastal Commission approval. However, Sea World was required to do extensive monitoring as a result of a permit it got (at Coastkeeper's urging) in 2007. The results of that monitoring were: (a) After large fireworks shows on 4th of July and Labor Day, there were exceedences of state water quality standards for fireworks pollutant constituents within the fireworks fallout zone (the study concludes these shows are responsible for the pollution; and (b) for the smaller shows, the monitoring is inconclusive. Basically, because Mission Bay is already so polluted, it's too hard to distinguish whether the fireworks or other sources cause the daily problems. So, again, I don't know where you're getting your information, but it simply isn't correct.
marco gonzalez June 26, 2012 at 06:22 PM
Since when is upholding the law unpatriotic? Go ahead and gripe about the laws if you are so inclined, but after two different judges find that we were correct three times, doesn't that speak to a problem with local government?
hans June 26, 2012 at 06:30 PM
Marco is doing this community a great service by fighting for such an unpopular cause. it defies logic that so many of you coastal residents don't see the harm in dumping large amounts of Chinese ballistic chemicals into a protected marine sanctuary that houses one of the most diverse underwater canyon ecosystems in the world. when governments choose to selectively enforce their laws they engage in discrimination... in this case the interests of local businessmen who make a killing off this event are being placed above the public's interest in maintaining access to safe and healthy coastal resources. if you all need to keep your juvenile explosive show then move it over some golf course somewhere where you can safely enjoy the polluting effects from a manicured lawn that depicts your true motivation - the subjugation of nature for your amusement.
Things I Learned June 26, 2012 at 06:35 PM
Local judges anyway.
Things I Learned June 26, 2012 at 06:37 PM
Kevin George June 26, 2012 at 06:39 PM
Sorry Marrianne, but no problem, I just hadn't seen the Mt. Soledad article yet, but if you look above you can see that I brought it up yesterday on my own, so I know where you're coming from. You are well aware of the number of that issues boil down to " the war on American culture". Forty years of promoting "white guilt" has resulted in this huge group of people who blame/hate America first and abhor anything intrinsically American, all the while praising, condoning and coveting anything " progressively Euro". It makes me sick. PS:Don't worry the Soledad cross article will get going, give it some time.
Kay Kardian June 26, 2012 at 06:45 PM
There are lots of things in the enviroment that affects the wildlife like boats, nets, plastic water bottles and plastic strips from pks of soda gasoline for the boats ships, should I go on. And he wants to end the fireworks. What a dweed..he should go in his home and stop complaining about things that are proberble not fact. This country has many things to consider and I don't think having fireworks is one of them. Give the people some enjoyment in this fast changing world. Stop and smell the flowers.
Village Creative June 26, 2012 at 06:50 PM
Pretty sure when the media runs a lead story that "Hell Has Officially Frozen Over", it will be based on an over-edited audio of a 911 call. Perhaps a better course would be for the State of California to study the environmental/social impact before issuing a license to "practice law" or, as our Federal powers-that-be have done with "actual" laws on the books, simply ignore them in order to bolster the voting base ~ which seems to be WAY more important at the moment.
Larry June 26, 2012 at 07:04 PM
"your jevenile explosive show"? This makes me not like you hans.
Kevin George June 26, 2012 at 07:11 PM
Perfect hans, that's your narrow perception of the situation. You: dumping large amounts of Chinese ballistic chemicals into a protected marine sanctuary that houses one of the most diverse underwater canyon.......... The study: leaned toward proving there could be problems ........... BTW are Chinese perchlorates more hazardous than domestic, just wondering?
Things I Learned June 26, 2012 at 07:14 PM
Chinese perchlorates are just doing the jobs American perchlorates won't do.
Selina Forte June 26, 2012 at 07:30 PM
Hans, I was thinking that you were making a very articulate comment and you had me right up until the "juvenile explosive show" and "subjugation of nature" comments.
hans June 26, 2012 at 07:42 PM
i don't know that much about Chinese perchlorates, but i do know that Chinese manufacturing in general is highly unregulated and has a long history of dangerous impurities... think Chinese milk products containing toxic melamine. if products meant for human consumption could be so contaminated what do you think their standards for perchlorate production might be?
hans June 26, 2012 at 07:46 PM
my point is, why are we so interested in fireworks? is there not something juvenile about this, like teenage boys lighting off m80's in their backyards? plus, it is juvenile to value a momentary big sparkly boom above a serious issue like environmental protection.
Things I Learned June 26, 2012 at 07:54 PM
I used to think the problem with juvenile explosive shows was that they ended so quickly. Now I just don't see the problem with that.
Things I Learned June 26, 2012 at 07:55 PM
Chinese perchlorates might be adulterated with milk! We can't take that chance.
Kevin George June 26, 2012 at 08:04 PM
hans, care to tell us anything else that we should like, dislike, need or not need? If it wasn't for this Constitutional argument you might be forced to mind your own damned business! Ooops, wrong article......on this one it's " environmental law" , please replace and move the "Constitutional argument" to the Mt. Soledad article. But it's no less applicable.
hans June 26, 2012 at 08:13 PM
Kevin, thanks for proving my point on both subjects. The reason we are a nation of laws is so that those of us in the minority can't be simply told to "mind your own damned business!" We have laws to protect rights, even the rights of those with whom you disagree. If you disagree with the laws then you should take it up with your Congressman, not me and Marco. Neither of us wrote the CEQA guidelines or the Constitution, so if your opinion is such an obvious winner then why hasn't it prevailed in the marketplace of ideas over the whole of American history?
Kevin George June 26, 2012 at 08:27 PM
hans, you make me long for a democracy rather than a Constitutional Republic which is saying a lot in view of my love of the Constitution. Here's an analogical clue: Just because you think fireworks shows are juvenile doesn't mean everyone does or that those disagreeing with you are inferior.
Kyla June 26, 2012 at 08:38 PM
I could see this being a valid argument if fireworks were being set off daily, weekly, even monthly. However, we are talking about 2 days per year. TWO. That amounts to 0.005% of the year. If you read Marco's study, which is based on the study of lakes (quite a bit smaller than the ocean), the bodies of water rid themselves of all the firework-generated perchlorate in 20-80 days. Our traditional firework days are considerably farther apart. Also, the study offers a solution to the problem in microorganisms that convert perchlorate into harmless molecules with such efficiency that they're used to purify drinking water. Finally, the study mentions eight other sources of perchlorate, one of which is a completely natural, spontaneous process. I happily set fireworks off over my own house each year, so no, my true motivation is not subjugation of nature. I just want to have some fun and celebrate the freedoms we all have that you're all too happy to crush beneath your PC, undoubtedly vegan shoe-clad feet.
hans June 26, 2012 at 08:42 PM
thanks for the lesson Kevin. I never said or meant to imply that my opinion is of any more or less importance than yours. I guess I was under the assumption that this was a forum for debate where we are encouraged to express our ideas in the interest of healthy discourse. I didn't realize it was a competition, but of course I agree with my own viewpoint as you do with yours... isn't that inherent in the nature of any debate?
Kevin George June 26, 2012 at 08:55 PM
hans, I am hoping some day to be as open minded and fair as you, but my juvenile desire for things "not hans" prevents it.
Clariece Tally June 26, 2012 at 08:56 PM
From Marco himself: "because Mission Bay is already so polluted, it's too hard to distinguish whether the fireworks or other sources cause the daily problems." Well there you have it.
Larry June 26, 2012 at 09:19 PM
Clariece? Now you're just being,"juvenile" :-)
Tom Yarnall June 26, 2012 at 10:03 PM
Hans,are you concerned about the bacterial sludge that flows into the bay each and every day? I am not sure how it impacts the plankton, if at all, but since you are,obviously, a mindless creature fan, does this environmental problem get much of your attention since it may only impact the joy of humans?
Vincent Wallgren, Jr. June 28, 2012 at 05:46 PM
BINGO!!! Nailed it!!! Give that man a cigar!!!
Merrilee Miller June 29, 2012 at 04:53 PM
The representatives of the city do not have the right hire pyrotechnic operators to shoot fireworks over our private property on/adjacent to Lake Murray. The San Diego City Council knows for a fact that the city lost this 1972 quiet title lawsuit. http://law.justia.com/cases/california/calapp3d/19/421.html Ask the San Diego city attorney for proof that the city is on title to APN: 674-010-04-00 & 674-010-09-00. It's simply a title fraud scam. A city can not over turn a superior court judge's ruling and acquire private property via fraud.
Gary Strawn July 02, 2012 at 07:12 PM
As a Member of the Regional Water Quality Control Board, I voted in favor of requiring Discharge Permits for large fireworks displays over water. I believe that there just isn't enough good science, yet, to determine the the effects of fireworks displays on our streams, bays and reservoirs. The permits were made affordable and allowed the fireworks operators to band together in conducting water quality and sediment assessments. Rather than ban fireworks, our hope is that this permitting process will help to make them safer and more enjoyable for all. Some locations or directions may need to change and some the fireworks themselves may change slightly as manufactures move to less toxic chemicals, but hopefully, the shows will go on.
Merrilee Miller August 26, 2012 at 05:55 AM
Bottom line, the city of San Diego is not on title to 2/3rd's of the land that that Lake Murray lies upon. APN: 674-010-04-00 & APN:674-010-09-00 are privately owned and consists of 102.6 acres of private property! A city can not hire pyrotechnic operators to shoot firework over private property. A city can not use FRAUD to acquire private property for an illegal private park. Do your due dilliagence and find out for yourself.
Merrilee Miller January 25, 2013 at 08:51 AM
Sorry, for the above typo. I should have stated that a city can not use FRAUD to acquire private property for an illegal "public" park.


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